Twenty-five years after September 11, are Americans still willing to defend the country, freedoms, and principles that terrorists sought to destroy?

Rick Robinson and Aggie begin with soap-opera villains, questionable celebrity transformations, childhood television memories, and the rare ability to turn off one’s brain. The conversation then shifts into a deeply personal reflection on September 11, the anger Americans were discouraged from expressing, and what has happened as the country has moved further away from that day.

Aggie discusses the friends she lost during the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the painful reminders left behind, and why she believes Americans must confront political and religious ideologies that are incompatible with individual liberty. Rick examines righteous anger, the misuse of religion as a tool of control, and the difference between forgiveness and refusing to recognize a threat.

They also consider American exceptionalism, the freedom to build something from an idea, the federal government’s staggering debt, political leaders who knew public money was being squandered, and why ordinary citizens are treated as a permanent supply of blood and treasure.

The United States is imperfect, frustrating, and frequently absurd—but it remains a country where Rick and Aggie can have this conversation without being arrested for it.